Here’s what we’ll cover
Have you ever flirted with the idea of running a workshop, an event, a mastermind or speaking to someone else’s crowd?
Or have you ever said no to an event that you really know you should be attending because you’re too busy? Or worse, because your inner introvert just doesn’t want to go alone?
Well, you’ll want to listen to my next guest as we talk about how and why you should be thinking seriously about getting in front of a crowd – whether that’s live or online.
By getting in front of her audience – talking, teaching and importantly – listening, Jenn Donovan was able to tap into a gap in the market and founded a facebook group purely to help out some rural businesses owners. This FB group grew to over 250,000 members in less than 8 months. It’s opened up a world of opportunity for Jenn and it all started by shaking off the nerves and sucking up the courage to get on stage in front of an audience.
Jenn is a thought leader for marketing in Australia and genius marketing strategist for small business.
She is the founder of Buy From a Bush Business and the very popular podcast Small Business Made Simple, Jenn is all about community and humans interacting with humans! Jenn talks the talk but importantly, she walks the walk!
Links and Resources
- Checkout the Simply Smarter Numbers website HERE
- Checkout the Podcast HERE
- Checkout the Instagram page HERE
Keep Listening!
Here’s the shownotes
Today’s guest is a business owner who I connected with on social media quite a few months ago now. We connected when we discovered that we were almost neighbours, and we’re both from the country and live only about two and a half hours away from each other, which when you’re in the country as rural business owner, that’s really close.
While we have lots in common, there is one thing that we definitely don’t have in common, and that is love for social media and marketing. I am not into social media and marketing, it is not something that I am any good at, and that’s why I am talking to Jenn Donovan.
Jenn is from Mulwala, a small country town bordering NSW and VIC, but she is doing big things, and by big I mean building a Facebook group with 250,000 people, in just 8 months. It’s called ‘buy from a bush business’, and that is just her side-gig.
Jenn is a social media and marketing expert who I know from experience has a gift for presenting and working a room, a gift for teaching her marketing skills and clearly, given that she has an amazing side-gig, she has a gift for social media and marketing.
Welcome Jenn Donovan to the podcast.
Jenn Donovan
Thanks Jen, what an intro, lucky you can’t see me I’m blushing. That’s so sweet, thanks for having me. I’m super excited to be a guest on your new podcast.
Jen Waterson
It is exciting. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your business Jenn.
Jenn Donovan
I’m not sure how much more I can tell you. I do have a social media and marketing business. Marketing is just a passion of mine. I live, breathe and have dreamed, and probably had nightmares, about social media and marketing.
It all started when I owned a retail shop in my small rural town. Previous to that, I had been in law and as for how my story goes, my best friend and I had way too much wine to drink one night and decided to buy a retail shop.
That’s kind of where I fell in love with marketing and social media, trying to get people in the door of a retail shop. Retail was just as hard back then as what it is now but social media may have been a little bit easier.
After that, we were able to sell the shop in three days, which was a huge accomplishment, I went into trying to teach other small businesses exactly how to grow their business using marketing and social media because for a lot of business owners, it’s a sometimes project not a priority. I am trying to make marketing a priority.
Jen Waterson
You’re so right there Jenn, it does work like that. It feels that as a business owner it’s when we’ve got time that we go to social media and marketing or when we get a bit slow, or sales are slowing down. It’s one of those things that we need to be on top of continuously.
Jenn Donovan
Absolutely. One of the things that my clients wanted to stop when Covid-19 came was the marketing, but you can’t stop marketing. We’ve got to keep that wheel going for consistent sales and business.
Jen Waterson
We did a cashflow masterclass in a crises a little while ago, when Covid-19 hit and that was one of the main points I wanted to get across to people, that yes we do get a bit lazy with our expenses and spend money on things that we probably wouldn’t need to if things were going well. But, one thing we can’t afford to cut is the marketing.
Jenn Donovan
Yeah Jen, if it’s working. Marketing is test and measure, there is particular pieces in marketing such as knowing who your who is, your target, knowing what you want to be famous for and getting on the right platforms. This is test and measure. Test it, measure it, did it work? Why not? If it worked, repeat.
It is something we constantly need to have our finger on the pulse about.
Jen Waterson
So Jen, there is so much stuff we could talk about, but today we’re going to hone in on one thing in particular. The one thing you have done in your business to get you where you are today. I would go as far to say that this one thing is something that sets you apart from the heavily saturated social media and marketing industry. That is, showing your dedication to events.
Jenn Donovan
It’s probably not something that I have always done. It is something that I’ve always done in my marketing business that I’m in now. But going back four or five years ago, networking used to make me want to churn in the stomach. The fact that I had to put myself out there and network with other people. At the end of the day, it’s a massive growth strategy and I just needed to get over myself which is exactly what I did.
I know a lot of people out there listening perhaps on social media, they just don’t want to show up, or do that video with their face in the camera or use their voice as part of their marketing but it’s just one way to stand out from a very crowded market place.
Jen Waterson
It’s easy to hide behind a computer, screen or camera, but to actually get yourself out there and hold face-to-face workshops, in person masterminds and in person networking events, like you do, is really exciting but hard to push yourself to make it happen.
Today what we’re going to talk about is how these things impacted your business and your profitability. Then we’re going to flip the coin and talk about how it is that it’s impacted your business when you come as the attendee. How you have improved your business operations, profitability and sales by turning up as guests to other people’s events.
A really important element to marketing is turning up as a human. The thing that we can talk about today is how it impacts your profitability, grows your audience and those sorts of things. Tell us a bit about the events that you hold or host, and what you actually do.
Jenn Donovan
Probably face-to-face pre-covid is definitely where most of my business comes from. I host a lot of workshops, live face-to-face workshops. So I help a lot of rural businesses, between Bendigo and Griffith, and it’s all about getting small business owners into a room and talking about marketing because most times you will find that your burning question is also ten other people’s burning question.
I know that we have missed face-to-face lately but there has been so much online learning, and I think people have realised that it can be just as good and easy for people.
I host a lot of face-to-face workshops but I do have a mastermind group that I do.
Jen Waterson
I find that a very interesting way for you to stand out as an expert and keep in touch with the people that you work with.
Jenn Donovan
Absolutely. I have a room of women in business, they’re a mixture between retail and services businesses, I can tell you by the end of our three hour session, I learn as much as them because I’m on the ground seeing what’s working in other people’s marketing businesses, not just my marketing business. I also get to see the trends in retail and service based businesses and they also get not just the wisdom that may come from me but also from the others in the room and that is what is so powerful about masterminds and workshops. Other people share experiences and you learn just as much from the person sitting next to you as you do from the person hosting the workshop.
Jen Waterson
It’s a fantastic way for people to meet other people. Masterminds are a great way to network but you can also become great friends with people and meet people with similar situations.
Jenn Donovan
Yeah you make new friends but even if you’re not out there looking for friends, there’s great collaborations. There has been some amazing business collaborations come out of the workshops and masterminds and the ones I have been involved in.
You’re in a room with likeminded people, you’re in a room with people who are willing to invest in themselves and their business. So you have that in common and you get to collaborate with other people using their growth ideas to help grow your business.
I know from a small rural business point of view, I have seen that work amazingly when retailers get together and host big events and share lists and use social media. It’s a great way of getting people into your shop and online that you wouldn’t have access to otherwise.
Jen Waterson
So your masterminds are people paying you to attend each month with a group and learn whatever it is they learn… and that’s the end product for you? Or one of your main revenue source or service offerings. Whereas, where would you place your workshops and other networking events, so far as the funnel and how you attract people? Is that the purpose of the workshops or are they a money-making thing for you, how do you look at the workshops?
Jenn Donovan
The workshops are definitely an income stream and some of them are through government agencies who pay me to go and host their workshops. There is a slower burn from converting someone from a workshop that they’ve come in, to a mastermind or being a paying client.
It is a bit of a revenue stream on its own but people do convert. One of the other live events I started to host got shut off this year was my women in business networking event that I hosted.
Jen Waterson
That was a very successful networking event by all accounts wasn’t it? How many people turned up?
Jenn Donovan
I had 70 people turn up to that. I actually cut off the tickets at 60 but I get easily conned by people wanting to come so I extended a few tickets. I had never run one before and the venue was maxed out but for me, it was an amazing event. Some people got lots of business out of that, networked well and found great ideal clients and there’s been lots of great connections out of it, but for me, it’s like a theta into my business women’s mastermind.
Jen Waterson
Beautiful, so what is it? And what’s the purpose there other than bringing people together?
Jenn Donovan
I did it to get the word out there that there’s this other group that goes on. For me to have on my social media that I have this group, and for people to go ‘I don’t really Jenn Donovan or the people in the group’ as opposed to ‘come along to a networking event that’s so much fun’, and go ‘oh my god I love this group of women and she sounds like she knows what she’s talking about’.
It needs to fit both ways, not everyone is for our group and our group isn’t for everyone so you’ve really got to have that ability to bring people in and give them a trial to see if it works both ways.
Jen Waterson
It allows people to dip their toes in the water a little bit before they go and invest in a group, time or money.
Jenn Donovan
Exactly. Covid has made me stop, think and go okay I need to take this online. So rather than just having my local one, I need to have masterminds that I can run online now that everyone is used to having these conversations online, and being held accountable to people online.
Jen Waterson
So this networking event that you held pre-covid was successful as far as the number of people that came. Would you say it was also successful in tracking conversions and people added to your audience? Did you track all that or did you just want to see if you liked that kind of event?
Jenn Donovan
It was to see if I liked it because I had never hosted an event before and I did get some advice on how to make a good networking event because I wanted it to be a great experience. But I did track other numbers. Unfortunately, I did have guests lined up to come to our women in business hub to have a try but then we went online. In March we didn’t have a face-to-face one and April and May was the same. Now we’re going back and I have to ask if they’re still interested. Of course I think that when I have another networking event, it will then bring those people back into being excited about what else is offered.
Jen Waterson
It did put a stop to a lot of things out there and all of these face-to-face things that you were doing, you were able to quickly pivot and do a lot of online workshops as well. Are you finding that you’re getting more people online than face-to-face?
Jenn Donovan
The numbers are similar and the demographics are different. There’s no limits and locality boundaries. Whereas if I was hosting an event in Shepparton it would mainly be Shepparton people for example. Numbers haven’t exceeded, apart from one where I had 90 people, and if that was face-to-face it would probably be unheard of. I think the numbers have been growing but they haven’t grown out of proportion, it’s just being able to tap into a different network.
Jen Waterson
So it actually probably works quite well for you, because you’re forced to give this a go, even though you always put yourself out there anyway, and when you’re forced to do it, it gives you the opportunity to see if it works for you, see if you want to do it in the future and how is it going to impact my business going forward? Do you think you’ll continue to do it online?
Jenn Donovan
I love face-to-face but I will certainly have a bigger mixture of both. I think it’s also a great experiment for those who don’t usually go online because people are more forgiving now. The other day I did a webinar and I tried polls for the first time so at the start I was trying out the new technology and they had to forgive me for trying to work it out, and they didn’t mind. However, I can see how other audiences might be more concerned.
Jen Waterson
It’s given people a reason to make it okay not to be perfect online.
What advice would you give to business owners out there who are grappling with the thought of wanting to get in front of people, and social media and marketing is one of the avenues you can use to build your audiences and feed your lead generation funnels. What advice would you give to someone thinking they want to get out of their comfort zone and make something like this happen?
Jenn Donovan
Just do it. It’s so much easier said than done but in one of my workshops, part of it is doing a video online and doing it now and people just freeze. You don’t have to post it but you have to record it right now, just don’t give people the time to think of a thousand excuses not to do it. Just get used of the way you look and sound on video. That was one of the biggest bits of advice that I got from a friend. He told me you look and sound exactly the same to me.
Jen Waterson
You’re right. We play some mind games with ourselves when it comes to doing all of that. You think that you can hear the nerves in your voice and you don’t look right. But for me, 12 months ago I would have been too nervous to go on video, however I was comfortable to go face-to-face. I kind of adopted the attitude that no ones’ watching me and I’m just going to throw it out there. That’s all you can really do and you’ll become more and more comfortable.
Jenn Donovan
I wasn’t a speaker until five years ago. I wasn’t on the debate team, I hated giving speeches at parties. Then I thought this is ridiculous I want to learn how to speak on stage so I did a course and learnt how to speak on stage. I remember my first speaking gig was in front of 250 people and I was literally in the toilets beforehand so sick. As I walked out my mentor said ‘it’s not about you, the people out there don’t care, they paid money to hear from you so go out there and give them what they want’. Two or three minutes into it I could tell that the audience was like ‘tell me more’ and I knew they didn’t care that I was nervous they just want to know what I know to move their business forward.
Jen Waterson
So get out there if it’s something you’re looking at doing. Obviously it’s a little tough right now but those days will return. Put yourself out there and the benefits that you will get as a business owner is building your audience and finding the right people for you.
Jenn Donovan
Absolutely. I think we go right back to the start of this conversation, if you want to stand out from the crowd and you look at all your competitors and nobody is standing out online, that is your space and your way to stand out in a very crowded and noisy market place.
Jen Waterson
Yeah and that’s what we said right at the very start.
You’re in the social media and marketing industry that is so heavily saturated and there is so many people doing it, to see somebody willing to stand up in front of the crowd, have real conversations, be a real human, now that’s putting yourself out there and people can experience you and see you and warm to you as a human and get a feel for working with you.
Jenn Donovan
Until they have to pull out the wallet and invest the money, they know that they can trust you and you’re the person who speaks their language. What more of a hot lead do you need?
Jen Waterson
I would love to touch on one of the big benefits of presenting events and workshops, and it’s the fact that we get to hear first-hand what the real ground level issues are that our audiences are having. I want to circle back to your amazing achievement of getting your Facebook group to 250,000 members in eight months. I believe this is where the inspiration came from to start you Facebook group. Can you just tell us how that came about?
Jenn Donovan
Back in very late October 2019 I had done tours for a week where I would do four or five workshops and then one-to-one coaching afterwards, in a different town every day. At this stage I had been on one and I was hearing the same thing over and over again from the people coming to my marketing event, and it was that they weren’t looking forward to Christmas and they were in drought. As an ex-retailer and a farmer’s wife, I know that if farmers don’t have money then small towns don’t have money.
Buy from a bush was starting to become a hashtag that people were using but people didn’t know how to hook onto that and they were saying they were using it and not getting attraction. So coming home from Hay on a Friday night I had a thought that I should start a Facebook group that everyone could post their own posts and if I asked my friends and clients to join maybe they could make extra sales to an alternate audience.
I had literally no idea what I was building or what was going to happen to that group. It was just my friends and clients to get to know each other and to buy something that they wouldn’t see every day.
Jen Waterson
It’s such an extraordinary story Jenn, so these people that you were out visiting in your workshops, they were having issues with their retail businesses given that they didn’t have all of the right set ups with websites and ability to sell online. Is that a big part of their problem? And lacking audiences perhaps with social media? Are these the kind of problems that you were trying to solve?
Jenn Donovan
Definitely Jen. Not a lot of micro small businesses have online stores, and in saying that I may be proved wrong in covid-19. Many of them may have swapped to an online store, but a lot of them didn’t get what Instagram was about and shoppable tags, and sometimes it becomes a little bit too hard so I will open my door and hope customers come in.
That’s what I was up against. It was just trying to make something for these people who perhaps weren’t too tech savvy. Talking about Facebook ads and that was too much for them.
I remember the weeks after doing it, having these posts in the group of ‘5000 members woohoo’ and then it was like ‘wow 125,000 members oh my goodness’ and now of course there’s about 254,000 members. It just goes to show that people want to support people in the country and the bush, and I think people were excited to get Christmas presents that weren’t seen before, they are a little bit different.
Jen Waterson
It’s an amazing opportunity from you being face-to-face and actually listening. It’s one thing to speak to an audience but it’s another to stop and listen to what they’re actually saying.
Jenn Donovan
Absolutely, we have to hear it a few times. I had a week on the road away from my family with not much else to do other than to present and then talk one-on-one with these people for six hours. When you hear something over and over again you sit back and wonder how you can solve these problems. I thought it was just something small that was going to help solve their problems. I had no idea it would grow into something so big or powerful.
Jen Waterson
It’s created an amazing opportunity for the people who joined the Facebook group, it’s also created an amazing opportunity for you by putting yourself out there, having conversations with people and thinking after, and caring enough to act and do something to solve the problem.
Jenn Donovan
I love when I get little messages from people that talk about the difference that the group has made. It’s heart-warming to think that a small idea that came from a boring drive home.
Jen Waterson
Whatever it is, it’s obviously been worth it. Sitting there and talking and listening to people, whether it’s your clients or potential clients, do you think you get more from those conversations than surveys or questionnaires? Does it give you the chance to dig deep and look for opportunities and get the real problems?
Jenn Donovan
There’s nothing like getting in front of your audience face-to-face. If I had of sent out an email or a Facebook post in general that I’m starting this group it wouldn’t have had the same attraction as being in this room and coming up with this idea and tailoring it and coming back to people saying ‘hey remember the conversation we had last week, this might help solve your problem, spread the word’.
Jen Waterson
At some other point Jenn, I think you and I are going to have to get on another podcast and talk about what has happened from start to finish. You’re still moving this thing but we’ll have to wait and see what happens.
Jenn Donovan
Yeah, there is a few things in the fire at the moment and just to try and make it so there is somewhere for people to go when they want to support that small business owner.
I love that saying, when you buy from a small business owner they do a happy dance. I just love that and I love the thought of that, that this group has made all those people do little tiny happy dances.
Jen Waterson
Let’s flip it around now, and have a conversation about the events that you go to as a guest. So what do you do to help improve your business from that perspective? Do you go to masterminds yourself? And workshops and networking events?
Jenn Donovan
Absolutely Jen, ever since I had my retail shop I have been a real advocate for mastermind. It’s part of my marketing strategy and my gift to my clients because I know how wonderful they are and how wonderful they work. I’ve always belonged to masterminds, and for the people that are not quite sure what a mastermind is, it’s a group of like-minded people gathering and talking about business, strategy, we learn from the person running the mastermind but also from the group.
The first one that I joined was an investment of about $10,000 a year, so it was quite a hefty investment for a small retailer, and I was the only retail person in the whole group, everyone else was service based. It was a learning curve for me.
I’ve always attended masterminds and I encourage everyone to have a mentor in their business, whether it’s a mentor you know and pay money too or an online mentor of someone who you follow. We need someone to look up to in our business. I always trying to up-skill and watching what other people do, and learning from others. Networking events is probably not something I go to a lot because of the location I live. There isn’t networking events that happen around my district which is another reason why I started my own, to get that happening around here.
Jen Waterson
How do you find it opens up your audience? I am really into all these things, I love having business mentors, coaches, attending mastermind, workshops, I will be in it if I can get into it because I know the huge impact it has on my ability to learn, and to then deliver to my clients.
It increases your ability to impact other people’s businesses when you’re learning things from different people. The thing that I love is the collaboration side. Collaborations are a wonderful way for people to grow their businesses. Perhaps give us your thoughts on collaborations and how you can use them as a marketing strategy.
Jenn Donovan
Collaborations are one of the biggest things that will come out of a mastermind or networking.
Let’s use us as an example…
Karen Mitchell who has Waterfront homes is one of my clients, knows you and connected us two. We got talking and speaking at Deniliquin. You’ve been on my podcast and have been of enormous value to my clients, and now I’m here on your podcast delivering value to your clients hopefully. That all just started with one person who thought ‘you know what, you two would actually hit it off’, we swapped emails and it started through a direct message.
Jen Waterson
Yeah I think so, it’s just one person that can connect you and really what you’re looking for in a collaboration is someone that has a similar audience but in a non-competing environment and industry. For anyone out there listening, it’s about thinking left of centre and saying who out there talks to my audience, has the same people that I have, but there not my direct competitor. It’s such an amazing way to build your own audience and sales and revenue.
Jenn Donovan
Absolutely. And they can be a competitor but not a direct competitor. Another really great collaboration that I have is Mel who has Starfish Marketing and she reached out to me because she’s another rural marketer who doesn’t get to speak much to other people and she was really afraid because we were kind of in competition together. We developed a beautiful friendship and have gone in to do a couple of collaborations together and go for big contracts because either of us can handle them ourselves. So we join forces and see if we can do it together. So technically she’s my competition but there’s a marketing person at every corner of every street I reckon.
Jen Waterson
That’s fantastic Jenn, I love that you’ve been able to do that and had enough trust to say okay there is enough people out there for us all we just need to work together to get the best result for that client.
The thing is, if you put 10 potential clients in front of you and Mel, some people are going to naturally gravitate to Mel because of her personality, and it won’t necessarily be based on what she knows and what you know, some people just gravitate to different people and that’s okay.
Jenn Donovan
You’ve got to know, like and trust me. If Mel is your person that’s perfectly okay because all we really want to do is move your business foward. So if someone else is best to do that for you then that’s what you need to do.
Jen Waterson
I think it’s really important to take a moment to think about the two things that we’ve been talking about today. One is how is it that you can put yourself in front of your audience, what can you do to impact your audience and have a presence and have them know you, like you, trust you and experience you before they put their hand in their pocket and having a think about what you can do that’s different to what someone else is doing.
Secondly, what is it that you can attend, be involved with, collaborate with, would you agree Jenn?
Jenn Donovan
Absolutely, and be willing to invest in yourself, you’re wanting to build a business, you’ve got a business so be willing to invest in that business, and if your that business, be willing to invest in you. Yes, masterminds may be expensive, yes, you may need to take half a day off to attend, but if you know it’ll be worth it, then do it. Try not to talk yourself out of it because of money or travel, be willing to invest in yourself to grow your business.
Jen Waterson
Another thing that’s just come to mind when we talk masterminds, is that they’re held on regular basis and they have a level of accountability that comes with them naturally, and accountability is priceless. What can happen, and I know because I have been to lots and lots of events in my 20 years in my field, you can go to a one-off event and come out of there with the smartest notebook on earth. You have so many fantastic notes, you’re going to do so much stuff, and then inevitably when you get back to the office and work, there’s just no time.
Jenn Donovan
I guess that’s why I like to finish off my workshops with the 72-hour rule. So what is one or two things that you’re going to do in the next 72-hours that is going to move your business forward? Don’t come to my workshop and spend two hours with me and go back to normal. Pick one or two, and do it.
Jen Waterson
Fantastic, that is such great advice and that’s where you get that level of accountability that you get in a mastermind, and even if it is just a one-off event, it’s a great challenge.
Thank you so much Jenn, I feel like we’ve given our audience so much to think about and the different things that they can consider to increase their profit in their business, sales and get things really happening. Like we said, we’re starting to come out of the covid-19 period so maybe now is the time to think about how it is that we can start incorporating some of this stuff in our businesses.
Jenn Donovan
Absolutely, and if you’re listening to this and you’re a bit like me and there’s no working events, do one. Just make one yourself. Be the person who steps up.
Jen Waterson
Great advice.
Well Jenn, tell everybody where it is that they can find you. Give us your website or whatever it is that you would like to put out there.
Jenn Donovan
If you want to connect with me on Linkedin, Jenn Donovan, I would love for you to send me a message and connect with me. Otherwise, on Instagram its smallbusinessmadesimple it would be awesome to hang out with you there as well.
Jen Waterson
And Jenn has a podcast of her own so if you’re into social media and marketing, or you’re like me and you’re not into it but you know you need to… then what’s the name of your podcast?
Jenn Donovan
Small Business Made Simple.
And you know what? It will help make your small business simple.
Jen Waterson
Well thank you so much Jenn for coming on as a guest. I’ve been so excited to have you on, we connected quite some time ago so as I said earlier, we could sit here forever and talk about so many different topics so I am probably going to have you back on again some other time to talk about some other topic.
But this was fantastic, I think it’s really timely, I think people are going to get a lot out of it and thank you so much.
Jenn Donovan
Thanks Jen for having me, it was absolutely awesome to be able to come on you podcast, and once again well done on the podcast.
Jen Waterson
Thank you and wherever you might be listening in the world, I hope you’re having a fantastic week and we will back again next week to talk with some other amazing guests. Thanks and goodbye.
